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tv   Hardball With Chris Matthews  MSNBC  December 10, 2014 11:00pm-12:01am PST

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remember, boys can earn sooner. >> thank you very much for joining us today on this important day for malala. thank you, adam. >> thank you very much for joining us today on this important day for malala. thank you, adam. >> thanks for having me. >> chris hayes is up next. "hardball" starts right now. where are you on torture? let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. only the reminds me of a rule in politics. if you have to change the name to something else like they start referring to something as revenue enhancement, they're trying to hide the truth. what they're really talking about but don't want to say is raising taxes.
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when dick cheney talks about enhanced interrogation techniques, you know they're talking about torture. tonight we're not talking right or wrong. we all know where we stand on that one already. let's talk about one simple issue. does it work? if in a terrible situation where the country has a lot on the line. should the president give the go ahead to give it a try or not? is there a plausible case based on human instinct, human history, what we call common sense that giving someone pain gets them to tell the truth or gets some people to tell the truth? glen carl, a former cia officer and author of the interrogator. director of central intelligence for this country from 1993 to 1995 and is the current chairman for the defense of democracies. i want to start with the former director of the cia. james woolsey. does it work? should torture be in the manual of options? >> not torture.
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but there is a very legitimate question. whether something like waterboarding is in fact tort you. legal scholars such as andy mccarthy and others have made a very strong case that it is not. if it is tort you, it is a rather odd kind. we perform on it a lot of our special forces for training and several of our officers volunteered to be waterboarded so they could write about it a year or two ago. i think you need to be careful about the definition. there are some things are clearly torture. pulling out somebody's finger nails and no, we should not do that. that is quite clear to all of us. >> let me get your clarification keeping people from sleeping up to seven days. stress positions for days if not hours. were there other techniques in that category, you wouldn't call any of that torture. >> if there is no permanent damage, i think one has to look
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at the circumstances. if the question is, can you save 3,000 people have died on 9/11, by making somebody not sleep for a couple of days, a lot of people i think including me would say that that is reasonable. to do something physically permanently damaging to someone that really is clearly torture, no. >> but if it worked, why wouldn't you do it? >> well, i think there are limitations that we all ought to see to what we do in order to defend ourselves. but in defending ourselves against killing thousands of americans by flying planes into buildings, i think probably the balance is going to be for a lot of people, including me. something like waterboarding may be acceptable, if only barely so. i have to say i don't hold that view really strongly because the man i most admire for his assessment. these issues is john mccain. and john mccain clearly says waterboarding is torture.
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so i think this is a close call. and a difficult and important question. it is important to have a debate about it. but my problem with all of this is not that people can't be on one side of this or the other. my problem is that it is public. because that i think is seriously damaging to the united states and our ability to work other intelligence services. >> your view on this as an experienced member of the intelligence committee yourself. >> whether waterboarding is torture or not was pretty clearly decided by the united states after world war ii. in the equivalent to the nuremberg trials them punished dozens of japanese intelligence officers soldiers for what was found to be a war crime which was waterboarding. the reason it is done to american intelligence officers and to military personnel, the s.e.a.l. training the director referred to.
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it is an important part of training, i went through it myself. we are at risk of being captured, kid animal and being tortured. so the training is to teach us what it is like in a controlled environment. how bad it can be. to learn ways you can maintain some shred of human annal. it went from what was torture resistance training was turned into an interrogation to obtain intelligence which is not what it does at all. it breaks people. i doesn't obtain intelligence. that's clearly known by the military, the intelligence community and our jag corps. up until after 9/11 with this strange twist. >> you're the expert on this. you have the responsibility for so many of this.
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if somebody is afraid of snakes, for example, i'm not a big fan of them. if somebody said to me you're going into a snake pit if you don't answer some simple questions now about where your unit was. how did the machine operate. most people would, a lot of people would crack under that. you say they wouldn't or they would? you're just saying you shouldn't do that. we shouldn't be thinking about how to scare the hell out of somebody. >> i'm not opposed to mind games. i think that's what a lot of interrogation is. some of them are very shocking and so forth. but i think if the question is, can you keep somebody from al qaeda from, who knows about, like, as khalid sheikh mohammed did, who knows about forthcoming attacks. if you can find out enough to stop that, is it okay to scare people? i would say sure, it is okay to scare people. is it to know pull out their fingers nails? no. >> because it wouldn't work?
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>> that's not the only criterion. >> if it is 3,000 people, why wonderful you pull out their fingernail? >> i think there needs to be clear lines. and that is clearly torture. >> why? this is my problem. if it does work, why would you have a line to stop at? if you could save 3,000 lives at the cost one life even, wouldn't you go for the 3,000 to save them from jumping off a 100-floor building? >> i think there has to be some lines for all of us in distinguishing between what we would do to protect the country on the one hand and what a ethical considerations are. where i draw it is permanent physical damage and go like pulling out finger nails. >> do you think it does any advantage in material of deterring the other side from doing it? we're up against, you know this all right.
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people like al qaeda. do you think they care what our limits are, what to do when they behead people and make them sit in fro rnt of a video camera. >> what they'll do is use any evidence that comes out publicly. they are not going to slow down in beheading people or raping women crucifying families, which they do now, because we go one way rather than another. they want to establish their empire and have it grow. and they'll do anything to make that happen. >> the justice department lawyer who wrote the torture memos if you will challenges any president in the same circumstances to not use the controversial interrogation methods.
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let's listen to them. >> i think any president in that circumstance, as the cia present it or as senator feinstein thinks it should have been present, the american president would have ordered these interrogation methods. >> let me go back. as an expert, do you believe they work? >> we went to the same university and he was a graduate. i imbued the meaning of the american constitution a little more clearly than he did. you don't define yourself by what your enemies do and try to do and how they will react to yourself. you affirm who you are and you do what you need to to protect yourself. director woolsey agree on most of these points. the fact is, the premise, the question would you do it, seems to assume it would work. it does not work. >> why was it used in the field over and over again? you see south vietnamese people fighting with water hoses in
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people's mouths. vc people to get some instant battlefield information. some intel to use right there in battle. in firefights. >> which is probably wrong and they spent a good part of the vietnam war bombing their own towns as a result of it. another critical component, you don't just get someone to talk. if he says something from whatever means you use, you have to evaluate it. you don't just take information and go out and act upon it. >> why was it done so much? it seems hike it was done a lot. >> you're talking about waterboarding? our practices? >> simple tortures. >> through history. >> yeah. in the vietnamese war. >> humans are less human than we would like to imagine ourselves. a lot of this comes down to an atavistic action toward the enemy. it is a chance to put your heel on his throat. and do you imagine that you can coerce something out of someone because you can force someone to
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bend down by just using physical strength. you have to, as an intelligence officer, evaluate the information you obtain and there is no assumption, there is no certainty the information obtained by breaking someone's arm is going to be more useful than by using traditional methods which the fbi has used for decades very successfully. >> thanks very much. this is a tough debate. a tough one. coming up, president obama says he is concerned there could be a back lash around the world. the release of the cia torture report. iran's supreme leader is now calling this a symbol of tyranny. [ shutter clicks ] hi there! [ laughs ] i'm flo! i know! i'm going to get you your rental car. this is so ridiculous. we're going to manage your entire repair process from paperwork to pickup, okay, little tiny baby? your car is ready, and your repairs
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how is the release of this tort you report from the senate democrats playing overseas? especially in the middle east. it has made headlines around the world, of course, but as the associated press reports, the news has been greeted with a collective shrug in the broader middle east. merely reinforced a long held view. other officials said they're concerned that potential ramifications down the line. but he defended the release of the report. >> one of the things that sets us apart from other countries, when we make mistakes, we admit them. and i think that as i said in my written statement, there are a
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lot of folks who work very hard after 9/11 to keep us safe during a very hazardous situation, at a time when people were unsure what was taking place. but what was also true is that we took some steps that were contrary to who we are. contrary to our values. some tactics that were written about in the senate intelligence report were brutal. as i've said before, constituted torture in my mind. that's not who we are. >> secretary of state john kerry backed the release of the report but he also defended the broader intelligence community saying it is important they be define the defense community in anyone's minds. with regard to the enhanced interrogation program kerry said it was right to end those practices for a simple but powerful reason. they were at odds with our values. they're not who we are and they're not who or what we had
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to become. because the most powerful country on earth doesn't to have choose between protecting our society and promoting our values. joining me from the state department, marie. thanks for joining us. this is a tough question. you say we didn't, you shouldn't have done it. we did do it and we're open about it. if there is another situation like it, the world must assume we'll do it again. practice torture. jim woolsey can deny the word torture but it is tort you of some kind of. >> president has been clear as long as he is president, we will be use these. the cia director said the same thing. >> suppose we have somebody in custody and we have reason to believe something is coming. neighbor not 9/11 but something bad. we know this woman knows it all. >> there are other ways to get information out of detainees. when the president came into office, he both banned these techniques -- >> how do you do it fast? >> can you bring them on the show.
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>> if you look at the army field manual, if you look at other ways to gather intelligence, there are ways to do it without reporting. >> both friends and foes alike. afghanistan's new president. the record was shocking, it vol's human rights around the world. the u.n. ambassador americans could be held accountable. it lets no one off the hook. germany's justice minister said the cia's practice of torture is gruesome. nothing justifies such methods. everybody involved must be legally prosecuted. and those were our friends. a tweet from an account associate with iran's supreme leader called the united states government a symbol of tyranny against humanity. a spokesman said we believe it
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should reflect on this and earnestly respect it. and north korean's prime minister called on the united nations to take action against america due to the inhuman tort you practice by the cia. a lot of that to me is b.s. these are torturing nations by. they. but our friends are pretty tough on us. the european countries that i don't think practice torture. >> a couple things. the secretary and other officials have been calling around explaining, here's why we decided to release and it here's why we don't do it anymore. and speaking to those countries, i would put our record up against iran's or china's. can you imagine these countries coming out and openly talking about their intelligence services or any other country, even some of our friends? >> my worry -- >> i can't imagine. >> my worry, if all they're going to do is waterboard you, all they'll do is make you stay up for six or seven nights and
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not go to bed or put knew isolation for a while other. countries do a lot worse to us when we get caught. the islamic state doesn't exactly have the geneva convention working over there. >> that's what makes us different from these groups and these countries. just because we can do things doesn't mean we should. that as americans, we would put our record up against anyone else's because we think we should do things differently. this isn't in lightning with our values. >> good for you. thanks. today, senator mark u dahl called for the resignation of john brennan. let's watch the lame duck senator from colorado. >> torture just didn't happen after all. contrary to the president's most recent statement, we didn't torture some folks. real actual people engaged in torture.
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some of these people are still employed by the cia. they are right now people serving in high level positions at the agency who approved, directed or commit acts related to the cia's detention and interrogation program. it's bad enough not to prosecute these officials. but to reward or promote them and risk the integrity of the u.s. government to protect them is incomprehensible. >> i'm joined now by the director of the "huffington post." and washington bureau chief for mother jones. how do you think the president is handling this? i don't think he's been different eni have the. i haven't been either. i'm not the president. but i don't have to be definitive. i keep wondering, is there more here than i ought to know about torture? the president hasn't really come down. maybe he has, has he? and said we're never going to do it ever, ever again no matter what happens?
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>> he's been as different eni have the as he can be in this situation. the big test for the president, i think, is not his early statements which are hard to argue with, i suppose. but if and when people try to demand the people either be fired as senator udall just. or prosecuted. either in the united states or under the accords of the geneva convention by international criminal courts. that's what the united nations is saying. that's what other people are saying. you can easily dismiss iran and the others. if international bodies decide to make an issue of this, then the president will have to say no way and at that point, he will be taking a definitive stand. >> he doesn't want to be a judge or allow himself to be used as a case to be made against our own people. >> right. >> that's why he is being careful not to use the word torture. he is saying in his personal pen in many circumstances, he is not
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stating an official act. making an official statement. the whole world is watching this andetting ready to pounce. >> do you think the rest of the world thinks what we're talking about torture is torture? do they think about that, the nazis or somebody like, that even the japanese in world war ii. the way they treated prisoners. do you think there's anything equivalent? i just watched unbroken. there's nothing like that in this report. constant beating. prisoners. >> the standards have changed when the whole world is watching. the high ground now in the battle of the future is social media. it's pictures and video. the leaders of those other countries are saying. they worry, the videos, the very
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vividness makes up for the fact that they aren't as brutal as some other things that have been done in history. if you look at a picture, you're not thinking about history. you're not thinking about context. you're looking at the picture in front of you and those things are very, very damaging to the standing of the united states. >> should the president say this doesn't work? right or wrong. we already have our views. >> if you read all 520 pages of the 6,100 pages, it tells you that it doesn't work. it is not effective. and it doesn't get results and again and again, we've seen this. i think the president has a bigger problem than saying whether or not it works. it is a complete breakdown. if you read the report, the am of times the cia is having lied. to the president, to the justice
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department. >> but does it work? does torture work? >> the report says clearly -- >> in this case it doesn't. if you want to start comparing it to what the japanese and the nazis did back in the day, that's not the bench mark now, is it? you can argue whether it is tomorrow. the report over thousands of pages makes the case. >> we just had jim woolsey on. and he said it wasn't torture. under the geneva conventions, it is torture. after world war ii the u.s. prosecuted german war criminals. only in the last ten years have the neo con crowd tried to say this isn't torture. but keeping someone standing and awake for 180 hours? do you know the math. that is torture in almost any official description.
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>> there are two levels here. one is world opinion. you can talk about what everybody else has done. when you see the vivid picture, it is a powerful thing. we are held to a higher standard and we should be. the geneva conventions, international courts, these are things that will have to be dealt with now that this is on the table. >> i wanted this out in the open. up next, the republican clown card keeps chugging along but some of the key passengers are waving goodbye to washington. bachmann, for example, steve stockman, a birther from texas, and some of the rest of them are going away. they're retiring. when the game is on the line...
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among the many lawmaker leaving washington for good this month, there are several on the hard right who deserve some special recognition. for the crazy things they've. over the years. only the we're paying tribute and farewell to some departing members of the right wing clown car. first up, the one term congressman from michigan who lost his primary in august. he was the guy who said at a campaign event that he dreamed of impeaching president obama. >> if i could write that bill and submit it -- >> do it! >> excuse me. it would be a dream come true. i feel your pain. i stood 12 feet away from the guy and listened to him. i couldn't stand being there.
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>> clearly, he had made a living as a santa claus impersonator. many questioned his state of mine after emthis in a legal deposition. i have a problem figuring out which one i really am. all my life i've been told i'm kerry and now i am a santa claus. now i prefer to be santa claus. figure that one out i guess he still has a job prospect. we're also saying goodbye to paul brown whose literal interpretation of the bible led many to would not why he belongs to the house committee on science. after all he famously called evolution a lie from the pit of hell. >> all that stuff i was taught about evolution and embryology, all of that, i hold the holy bible as being the major directions to me --
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>> i think he is in the natural history museum. he won't continue to do that essential he lost his bid for the u.s. senate. last but hardly least is congressman steve stockman from texas who ran the primary challenge against john cornyn this year. he advanced the theory the government was purposefully allowing ebola to spread in this country. >> i would not be surprise that had the reason that you see a lack of response is so that it becomes a real crisis and then things can be used to correct the crisis. this current government uses crisis to advance their philosophy and their agenda. >> we created ebola. in his final months, the job skrepg came with this warning. vapid gran old as who fear guns, hate babies and are ashamed of america and think islamic terrorists and illegal aliens are just misunderstood and will
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not be comfortable here. up next, the three key characteristics you need for running for president. we'll talk about a motive, passion, and spontaneity. any successful presidential candidate needs to say why they want the job, they need to show the passion for getting and it the ability to think on their feet. we'll run through the 2016 contenters to see who has the right stuff. in a minute, actually. that that that that. a remote that lives on your phone.
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the ebola fighters including dr. kent brantly, the first person to be infected with the virus.
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ted kennedy was asked while he wanted to be president in 1979, and his answer raised big questions that his motivations. >> why do you want to be president? >> well, i'm the going to make the announcement and to run, the reasons that i would run is because i have a great belief in this country that it is, there are more natural resources than any nation of the world, the greatest educated population in the world, the greatest technology of any country in the world, the greatest capacity for innovation in the world, the greatest political system in the world. and the energies and the resourcefulness of this nation i think should be focused on these problems in a way that brings a sense of restoration in this country. >> it took him 71 years to get to the word that was the answer. restoration of camelot.
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with gop candidates, they must also ask the same questions. why do they want to be president? do they have the passion to campaign and love it all or do they have the responsibility night to be a candidate itself? i'll look at a few including hillary clinton, jeb bush. in the roundtable, clarence page, susan page, washington bureau chief, everybody on the road always reads, and congressional reporter for talking points memo. gentlemen and lady, let's get to. this hillary clinton. motive. why does she want to be president? can you tell? >> i think i would like to have her answer that question hopefully in a fewer words than ted kennedy did. she has hard work, persistence, intelligence. >> and motive. >> does she have motive? >> that's what i want to know. she's been running for class president most of her life.
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like most politicians. as mitch said, i have a caucus. what's the motive? what do you want to do when you get there? >> i think she does have a vision for what she wants to see in america. she has to articulate it now as to just what it is. and the thing about her is that she compromises so often in her vision that it may come off as a bit murky. but there is certainly an unwritten, unspoken motive in wanting to be the first woman to hole that job. >> that's what i think it might be. >> she is extremely ambitious. i would -- >> what's the motive? >> i don't know. she is competent in many ways. >> let's go to jeb bush. is it a family business? >> well, yeah. >> is that it? that's important though in terms of, does he think that the country can be best run by him? not just a bush but by him.
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i think he does. i think for the same reason that he wanted to be governor of florida. that's something again, he is going to have to articulate it. >> what is it? >> i don't think family business is a good enough reason. i don't think wanting to be the first woman or breaking ground in that way is good enough. you contrast it with bill clinton. he had a clear motive, he had a clear vision for changes he wanted. policies he had been thinking about for a long time. he had that going away. >> i think so. they have not articulated -- >> i think clinton want to be, they weren't ivy leaguers. they were regular people who worked hard and played by the rules. >> what is jeb up to? what is his motive in life? >> i think he's done everything else. >> let's go to somebody who does have ideas. rand paul. >> he wants to refashion america.
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>> more libertarian -- >> he has a vision. he really believes in it. >> by the way, you have to question his position on the '64 civil rights bill. >> he wants to end the drug war. he wants to push back on the national security state. he wants to change the way america views -- >> speaking of motive. i have my position on this. ted cruz. what does he want to do? >>s. that's not really clear. >> is it positive? >> i think this is his limit. i think he has shown, he is motivated to want to bring the teem philosophy if you will -- >> negative. >> but that's not good enough to win over main stream america. >> i think he thinks obama is castro. i think he thinks he is a counter revolutionary. >> that is a point of view. there is an animating view here. >> we're going to him it to four.
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let's look at hell hill. the clang of the debates and full houses of people yelling and roaring ought. the media. does hillary like that in. >> she went through that long campaign in 2008 and still had energy left at the end. >> she proved herself. she stuck around. and she became a better and better candidate. and more and more authentic. >> does she have a passion for it? >> i think she does would she rather not run? >> i think she wants to run. >> she wants at this time normal way. >> i don't think she has the option of not running. >> i think secretary of state and before and will and the presidential campaign is gender equality. >> i think some people around the world. i think ed koch loved being a politician.
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>> let's talk about spontaneity. a really unfair thing. some people have it. and they're not necessarily good people. the ability in a split second when somebody says, you know, whatever ham to your teddy bear? where is it right now? i'm just asking stupid questions. clarence, responsibility night like the way tim russert asks the tough questions. where are you on illegal immigrants? or undocumented people in california getting driver's licenses. i have to make up my mind. >> bill did it. but who can beat him on qualities like that. the thing about spontaneity is, the whole campaign nowadays has tried to whittle away spontaneity. everybody is so guarded now because of the fear of making a gaffe. that's what happens. >> you remember guys, they're not great politicians. bob dole always had a quick
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answer. ted kennel created the press conference. >> john mccain. if you're nervous, if you're trying to always figure out the repercussions. you cannot manage. >> do you know what kennedy said about nixon in. >> i think spontaneity will be an issue for hillary clinton. at some point to trip her up like on marriage equality. >> terry gross was being awful tough though. most of us moved social when i that. we didn't sit down in a little cave and decide where we stood on it. we listened to everybody else. >> so say that. it's fair to ask. >> this idea that somehow basic human value that has been around 3,000 years is ridiculous. 20 years ago if you ask me, my an would be different. >> not allowed to chaek your mind these days.
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>> who is who have has the most, motive, passion, spontaneity. >> nobody wants to have the questions thrown at them. it is why the republicans want to run their own debates next year. up next. a cute little provision to help was the street. this is going to be one great fight. the deadline for keeping the government going is tomorrow. is this going to cause a shutdown? ry year with flu complications. so to kill the germs that may make your family sick, we recommend using lysol disinfectant spray every day. lysol is approved to kill 80 germs, including hard to kill viruses that can live on surfaces for over 4 weeks. it works on hard and soft surfaces to help stop the spread of bacteria.
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and register for a personalized guide to help you prepare for a conversation with your doctor. as moveon is trying to lure elizabeth warren into the race, another key progressive says he's ready for hillary. hillary clinton is by far the most qualified person in the united states to serve as president. if she runs, i will support her. not the first time dean's voice but it is note worthy considering it comes as those other progressive groups are pining for elizabeth warren.
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welcome back to "hardball," the race to avoid another government shutdown is at its breaking point. john boehner declared he reached a breakthrough one day before the lights could go out on capitol hill. that deal is being criticized by some on the left as one giant republican hostage list. it includes a bunch of partisan giveaways, sugar plum, if you will, including one for wall street which rolls back a key banking regulation enacted after the financial crisis back in 2008/'09. the spotlight has turned to democratic senator elizabeth warren. she flexed her muscle today calling for her colleagues to reject boehner's deal to fund the government. she says -- >> we put this rule in place because people of all political per situations were disgusted at the idea of future bailouts, and
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now, no debate, no discussion, republicans in the house of representatives are threatening to shut down the government if they don't get a chance to repeal it. i urge my colleagues in the house, particularly my democratic colleagues whose votes are essential to moving this package forward, to withhold support from it until this risky giveaway is removed from the legislation. >> wow. we're back at the roundtable. clarence, you start on this. it looks like this is her chance, you know, the galloping horse of history is riding by. she jumps on this horse now. she fights this guy, boehner, who is buckling to the worst elements in the party, which is basically hold the government hostage right before christmas so you can help out wall street. and there she is, the champion against wall street, ready to charge. >> right. well, she's not jumping on this horse now. this has been her horse all along. this provision would remove the protections that we now have
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against the public having to bail out wall street for its gambling. that was probably the biggest irritant to come out of that crash of '08, and now they have this little provision in the bill to try to slip this in past the democrats. and elizabeth warren is leading the charge now. barney frank is out there, too, by the way. >> he issued a press release from retirement today. >> very important element. >> you talk about motive, passion and spontaneity, elizabeth warren has that on this issue. >> that's right. >> and that makes her a pretty potent opponent for republicans to have on this. and boy, talk about tightwire, no net, funding the government a shutdown. >> everybody will be watching the rest of this week. and almost like she's the good knight versus the bad knight, ted cruz, when it comes to talking across the capitol to the other body and telling them what they should be doing. this is like ted cruz caucuses with the red hots. >> elizabeth warren picks her spots.
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this is something she knows inside out. this is something she helped pass in the bill. >> -- that's how you become a great senator, from my experience. >> and a presidential candidate. >> pick the stuff you know. >> how about being a great senator. can't we just celebrate somebody who is doing their job like elizabeth warren, in a key moment? >> and the interesting thing is this has spooked a lot of democrats. a lot of democrats didn't know this was in there and now they've heard warren -- >> so all this derivatives and betting on if this, if that, if that, and all that game playing on wall street, they want to go back to that and she's blowing the whistle. >> i would suspect most members of cog don't understand how this works, regulation of derivatives. she understands and they know she understands because this is the issue that launched her into the senate. >> maybe we'll help spot it for the people out there.
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when we return, let me finish with a question i have for voters. it's going to be a tough one. it's going to attack the right. you may not be surprised, but you'll probably love it. the place for politics. back in a minute.
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really free credit score we're for an opens you internet for all.sing. we're for creating more innovation and competition. we're for net neutrality protection. now, here's some news you may find even more surprising. we're comcast. the only isp legally bound by full net neutrality rules. let me finish tonight with a question i have about voters. what are people thinking when they send someone like michele bachmann to washington?
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are they doing it to send a message of contempt for the place? does voting to her feel like throwing a grenade into this city? does it feel good to know you're causing disruption like lobbing a monkey wrench into the engine gears? tell me, are you serious or is it a way to let off steam? like the guy in that movie "network" who kept bellowing i'm sick and tired, i'm not taking it any more. does it feel like that? does it feel better to know you threw a rock at the establishment? like one of the poor kids from the bad neighborhoods who only means of self-expression is spray painting graffiti up under the train tracks so passengers will see it? is that what you're voting for? people like michele bachmann and the rest of that clown car? is it? i've got a better idea. find yourself a true blue conservative. a rand paul or a scott walker or john kasich. don't waste your vote back can people who have conservative thinking, only your disgust.
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that's "hardball" for now. "all in" with chris hayes starts right now. "all in" with chris hayes starts right now. tonight on "all in" -- >> the only person who is completely read in is richard bruce cheney. >> fallout from the release of the bush era torture report keeps coming and richard bruce cheney is finally talking. >> what are we supposed to do kiss him on both cheeks and say, please, please, tell us what you know? of course not. >> what price should the architects of the torture regime pay? >> plus elizabeth warren leads a last-minute revolt against big bank giveaways. >> this provision goes too far. >> did homeland security warn sony pictures not to mess with north korea? >> you want us to kill the leader of north korea. >> yes. >> what? >> angelina jolie, leonardo dicaprio and kevin federline all victimized as a sony pictures hack gets exponentially worse. all that plus the latest on witness 40 when "an"

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